(12/10/02)
Archived Chat with Bruce Baker:

8Bruce has joined the conversation.
 Lisa- : Hi ya Bruce!
 Bruce : Hi Lisa
 Lisa- : any problems getting on tonight?
 Bruce : Sorry I am a bit late but it was hard for me to get here
 Bruce : Not to bad just a little slow but I am here
 Bruce : I forgot what the check thing was for that we talked about this morning
 Bruce : what is the purpose of that again?
 Bruce : Hello ken
 Lisa- : great! Ken went to get coffee, he'll be right back, otherwise it is just the 3 of us so far
 Lisa- : Just to highlight my entries for you in case it gets crazy!
 Bruce : Well it should be easy to keep up with three
 Lisa- : for sure! I am guessing a few more people will arrive
 Lisa- : I am working on a Santa head that currently looks possessed!
 Bruce : Well I hope so it is like having a party and having no one come 
 Bruce : Well I am sure that happens the closer you get to Christmas
 Lisa- : At the very least, I will get lots of info, and that's what's really important!
 Bruce : If I check out for a minute I am having coughing jag
 Lisa- : Let me grab a couple of the questions off my list from those who I know won't be here...
 Bruce : I have a tickle in my throat that is driving me nuts today
 Bruce : Ok I am set ready to get started.  Are you having snow in your area.
8Cindy has joined the conversation.
 Lisa- : here is a question from Bonnie...4.  Since I do only one show per year, I have not found it feasible to offer charge cards  because of the expense involved; is this a mistake?? Bonnie Jones
 Bruce : Hi Cindy
 Lisa- : HI ya Cindy! We are just free chatting
 Cindy : hi everyone
 Bruce : Welcome and greeting from Fridgid VT.
 Lisa- : here is the question again from Bonnie so Cindy knows where we're at... 4.  Since I do only one show per year, I have not found it feasible to offer charge cards  because of the expense involved; is this a mistake?? Bonnie Jones
 Cindy : glad I did not miss anything and it is 80 here
 Lisa- : Poor Cindy- freezing in FL
 Lisa- : LOL
 Bruce : I think whenever you go to a show
 Lisa- : Bruce is either typing a response or coughing... haha
 Bruce : NO matter what. IF you do not take credit cards
 Bruce : you are limiting your business by 25 percent or more
 Ken : back
 Lisa- : Is there a "best" company to work with on credit cards?
8Elizabeth has joined the conversation.
 Bruce : Everyone who tells me that they start taking credit cards that they have a 25 to 30 percent boost
 Ken : so Bruce how CCCCold is it in VT today... it was 70 here !
 Lisa- : Oh my Elizabeth made it in!!!
 Bruce : to their business
 Elizabeth : Yes!  Glad to be here
 Cindy : Yea Elizabeth
 Elizabeth : Hello everyone.  Glad you could be here with us Bruce.
 Bruce : It was about 13 when I woke up
 Cindy : your in
 Lisa- : Geez Ken, you and Cindy can complain together about the weather, it is 27 here in Indiana
 Ken : ooooo !
 Elizabeth : Hi, Cindy
 Bruce : It is my pleasure
 Elizabeth : 16 here in Michigan
 Ken : I may have to wear shorts Friday.... !!!
 Bruce : Really a tough winter so far and it hasn't even started
 Cindy : I would love some of the so now and cooler weather
 Cindy : snow
 Bruce : Come on up
 Elizabeth : I love it.  We have five inches on the ground now.
 Bruce : So back to the credit card thing/
 Ken : sure, been looking for land in VT for a year....
 Lisa- : yes...
 Ken : k
 Bruce : Credit cards are important at shows because
 Bruce : people play a game with themselves
 Bruce : they don't take cash.
 Bruce : Checks our out of the question for many people.
 Bruce : even if artist take them.  the customers are not in the mind set to use them
 Lisa- : what is the lowest percentage you have heard of companies charge on purchases?
 Bruce : So Credit cards are like
 Ken : how do you validate the credit card against the person ??  fraud being my concern ..
 Bruce : very funny money
 Bruce : I get the santa of my dreams and all I have to do is give you a piece of plastic
 Lisa- : I have played that game myself...
 Lisa- : alot...
 Bruce : then I get frequent flier miles on top of that
 Elizabeth : LOL
 Bruce : It is just so easy to close a sale with a credit card
 Lisa- : so really, no money has been spent- so where did our debt come from anyway? LOL
 Bruce : What I wouild suggest to the person who only does one show a year is this
 Bruce : Find someone who she can use their merchant statis.
 Bruce : Any one she knows who has merchant statis  should be able to do it.
 Bruce : She gets the information at the show.
 Ken : merchant status ?
 Bruce : then comes home and processes the nu
 Lisa- : Ken, meaning they are already set up to take cards...
 Ken : k
 Bruce : Merchant status is what it is called when you take credit cards.
 Lisa- : That is actually how I am working it right now through the family flower shop
 Bruce : Processes the numbers when she gets back The person will collect the money and give it to her
 Lisa- : I make sure buyers know their credit card will be charged through the greenhouse- works out well.
 Ken : do we have to have one of the swipe card holders & Forms ??
 Bruce : after all has cleared/ Minus any problems of course
 Bruce : Well some banks will charge a higher percent
 Bruce : but if it is only a few transactions per year it would not be a problem
 Lisa- : Ken, provided they can take credit cards via phone, then you can also do manual type in of the numbers
 Ken : so you do not make the transaction complete until you get the $$ in hand !!
 Ken : ok
 Bruce : what some people do is use carbon paper and rub the card to get an imprint
 Ken : ok
 Bruce : Others just write the number and ex date
 Bruce : also currently there is a four digit number that is being asked for on the back
 Bruce : be sure to get that too.
 Bruce : That is the back of the card
 Lisa- : PayPal is also an option, but they charge a huge percentage-
 Bruce : four digits that follow the number on the back of the card
 Ken : doesn't that give the card holder some exposure to fraud....??
 Bruce : I hear good things about pay pal but that is why I don't use them
 Lisa- : I think I paid them $14 on a $500 trans.
 Lisa- : still works in a pinch though
 Elizabeth : So that's 7%
 Bruce : There is fraud out there every where.  I believe that trust and hope are our greatest
 Ken : OK
 Bruce : strengths.
 Lisa- : I think at the flower shop it is around 2.5%
 Elizabeth : Big difference
 Lisa- : yep
 Bruce : I get mine for 3 percent and that is tied into my local bank
 Bruce : No one should pay more than 3.5 %
 Lisa- : ok Bruce, here is the low down, I think all 4 of us chatting with you right now are very new to the BIZ! What are the biggest hurdles we need to watch out for?
 Ken : so, if I setup ourselves with this Merchant capability we may get a lower %rate ?
 Bruce : Lets try a new question
 Lisa- : Bruce , did you catch the above question?
 Bruce : If your bank doesn't give you a good reat
 Bruce : shop around on the net
 Ken : ok
 Bruce : My card processor for some of the cards I take
 Bruce : are in other states.
 Bruce : I think one of the biggest issues that people starting out have to look out for are
 Ken : your web site is set up to take cards online right ?
 Bruce : Control issues
 Bruce : I see many craft businesses every year that do not get
 Bruce : their baloon off the ground because the
 Bruce : person running the business  can not give up control
 Bruce : Here is how it looks.
 Bruce : If you are doing everything with your business
 Bruce : Including your books. travel plans.
 Bruce : selling designing.
 Bruce : shipping all without help
 Bruce : you are at risk.
 Lisa- : Control freaks beware...
 Bruce : Running a craft business is a huge job
 Elizabeth : lol
 Bruce : one that takes many skills
 Bruce : sometimes artist do not have all the skills but they do not allow themselves
 Bruce : to get help
 Lisa- : so at what point do we know we are making enough to farm out some of the work?
 Ken : how many people in your business?
 Bruce : Show me a successful craft business and I will show you and artist who
 Ken : makes cents....
 Bruce : has learned to deal with their control issues
 Lisa- : ok, now you are asking alot 
 Bruce : or it is a business where one partner is the right brain and the other is the left
 Bruce : I have about 14 in the summer and about 8 in the winter
 Ken : wow...
 Lisa- : So partnerships are a good way to go if you plan to pursue this as a buisness...?
 Bruce : One person can do it alone but only do the things that you like and are good at
 Bruce : the rest should be farmed out
 Bruce : such as shipping
 Bruce : accounting
 Bruce : etc etc.
 Elizabeth : Do you mean we hire someone to package and ship?
 Bruce : Absolutely if time is an issue for you
 Bruce : meaning you don 't have time to do all the creatining
 Bruce : a high school kid can swintg by every night and ship
 Bruce : with a minimum of training
 Elizabeth : I wish I had enough product to need someone every night!  LOL
 Elizabeth : I see your point though.
 Lisa- : here is a question for you... I have 2 other artist who work with me occasionally and I have their pieces on my web site- what is a fair percentage if they sell off my site? They do nothing aside form creating their pieces.
 Bruce : Also another issue going back to the original
 Bruce : question
 Bruce : is Production
 Bruce : Many artist are not productive enough be cause
 Bruce : we listen to our culture and what our culture teaches us about being an artist
 Bruce : It says you have to make everything your self
 Lisa- : hoop earrings and long skirts?
 Bruce : if you have help you are cheating
 Bruce : Design and create to be productive
 Lisa- : I see that- as well as a prejudice against those who do use pre-made items
 Bruce : There will always be those biases in our culture.
 Bruce : I am a jeweler
 Bruce : I cast much of what I make
 Bruce : people poo poo it because it is cast sometimes
 Bruce : but the bottom line is the people who poo poo it are jealous because I am making money and sometimes they are not.
 Elizabeth : True
 Cindy : do you do the wax mold your self
 Lisa- : isn't that always where the poo poo comes from?!
 Bruce : When I used to do shows we always had a huge crowd around  out booth because we were selling lots of jewelry
 Bruce : you should have heard some of other awful things people used to say about us
 Bruce : BUt they were jealous of our success.
 Ken : yes, laugh all the way to the bank....
 Bruce : AS long as you are starving at a show you will have many firend
 Bruce : but when you start to really sell people will bad mouth you
 Bruce : that is when you know you are being successful .  Weird isn't it.
 Ken : yep, look at Martha !!
 Elizabeth : But true
 Bruce : I think martha si a classic example
 Lisa- : I think that all in all, I have found the Santa making community at large to be really supportive, but you can see some folks back off when you start selling
 Bruce : she had incredible taste. She is highly successful
 Bruce : but everyone is always bad mouthing her
 Cindy : Who is Martha?
 Ken : but a control freek....
 Lisa- : Stewart
 Elizabeth : Stewart
 Bruce : but she had the best section at K mart ever
 Cindy : ok
 Ken : true
 Lisa- : So, who do you trust to tell you if your really "have it" enough to be successful in the craft business?
 Cindy : thanks I was not thinking outside the santa makers
 Bruce : I think she could not have gotten to where she is today if she didn't delegate responsibility bigtime
 Bruce : Has any one notice that I can
 Bruce : type and have wicked dyslexia
 Elizabeth : We love you anyway
 Cindy : LOL so do a lot of us
 Lisa- : right- so she may be a control freak but had to go outside of it or would never have ended up... in prison? LOL
 Ken : now...now......
 Lisa- : So where do we complete newbies start?!?!
 Bruce : Well where do we stand now
 Bruce : I know one more thing I wanted to say
 Bruce : I have looked over your web site and I havd looked at lots of the photos
 Lisa- : drum roll
 Bruce : YOU have some really talented people on the site and they do great things
 Bruce : 'Now come the but
 Bruce : One of the problems is
 Bruce : that there are a lot of people who collect santas
 Bruce : but there are also a lot of people who make them
 Bruce : essentially the market is fairly small
 Bruce : and very niche
 Bruce : so how do you get to the big time collectors
 Bruce : and show or tell them that you are the best
 Bruce : That is a question for all of you out there
 Bruce : hello
8Bruce is away.
 Lisa- : I think that alot of the collectors are surfing the web- I feel that is our best way to find them...
 Elizabeth : Where's Bruce
 Bruce : I am here I am not sure what just happened
 Lisa- : Hey bruce, hit the coffee cup next to your name to the right...
 Cindy : But are the BIG time collectors surfing the web?
 Bruce : I think if the web works for your group that is really excellent
 Ken : I think we have to advertise who we are & what we have to offer that others do not have..
 Lisa- : I don't know that the web works so much for "the group"
8Bruce has returned.
 Lisa- : I think individual web sites work, but for some reason, the group site gets little traffic aside fromn ourselves
 Cindy : we need connections
 Bruce : But in general when I am out on the road
 Cindy : to the big collectors
 Ken : and get into "Crowds" of people who also have influence on others....
 Bruce : artist are telling me that the web doesn't work for them unless someone has already seen thier work
 Elizabeth : So what do you suggest?
 Bruce : YOU hit the nail on the head ken'
 Bruce : IF there is a social situation where santa collectors
 Ken : go there..
 Bruce : go that would be great to tap that territory
 Lisa- : I also think there is room for expansion outside the niche of collectors- I have had several sales to collectors and several to those who saw the "dolls" at a show and had never seen anything like them before.
 Bruce : I have to ask.  Do santa makes only make santas?\
 Cindy : no
 Elizabeth : no
 Bruce : Or do you do elves and Frosties
 Cindy : and witches
 Elizabeth : Angels
 Ken : so I could display our Santa at a "Social" event someplace where there are lots of people, maybe the young republicans meeting each month !!
 Elizabeth : Yes, witches1
 Lisa- : fairies and other mystical creatures seem to be the big sellers in the art doll world
 Bruce : So maybe there is a problem with the word to finding a bigger market
 Bruce : Now you are talking.  Art Dolls just opened the market by several million individuals.
 Lisa- : I also think that we're somewhat doomed unless our pieces have a uniqueness of character that grabs people
 Bruce : This is my point.  Make art for the biggest market possible.
 Bruce : IF that character you refer to is there.  The price is of no importance
 Lisa- : so how do we find the best shows to begin marketing ourselves? Do we need to start small or go for broke?
 Ken : now you are talking mass production, since everyone in the same town won't have the same piece ???
 Bruce : People will pay anything for something that they feel has great perceived value
 Lisa- : so is this where one of a kind pieces come in? Are they going to have a greater draw than limited editions?
 Bruce : I am not talking about mass market.
 Ken : ok
 Cindy : How do we portray that value
 Bruce : I am talking only about one of a kind or limited edition
 Ken : ok
 Bruce : I always say look to the real masters at marketing if we want to learn something
 Bruce : The best exampole I can think of this is the beanie baby
 Bruce : silly as it sounds
 Bruce : it was marketing genious
 Bruce : take something this is worth 195
 Bruce : that is a dollar 95 wholesale
 Bruce : they were cute not unlike santa.
 Bruce : they were precious. cuddly etc
 Bruce : then TI decided to make them hard to ge
 Bruce : get.
 Ken : and they made them in masses...
 Cindy : who should we look at besides Martha?
 Bruce : that is where the genius comes in '
 Bruce : YES.   But they only let stores have a few at a time
 Bruce : when the box would arrive people would start a riot
 Ken : ahhhh!
 Lisa- : Does this go for only showing a few at each show as well?
 Bruce : to get a di bear
 Bruce : Tehy paid 395 that is dollars for a di bear
 Ken : teasers....
 Lisa- : don't load 12 Santas into a booth? Just a few and take orders?
 Bruce : so.  MY point is to make them special.  Make them rare
 Bruce : talk about them as they are rare and precious
 Bruce : and limited edition or one of a kind
 Bruce : price them accordingly
 Ken : how limited Bruce ?
 Bruce : When you have successes make them know
 Bruce : and people will want more
 Bruce : I would say no more than 10 or a dozen and then
 Lisa- : so is this a reason to keep my sold pieces pictured on my site?
 Bruce : change it a bit and start a new edition
 Bruce : Yes it is.
 Bruce : as long  as there is more available than sold
 Lisa- : and show only a few examples at a show booth?
 Bruce : Show as many as you can fit in the booth but no repeats
 Bruce : the More inventory you have at a show the more you will sell
 Lisa- : So the rule changes a bit at a show to have that "perfect piece" that speaks to someone?
 Bruce : this is always the rule and people in my workshops seem to agree
 Lisa- : so again- where do we start? Big shows>
 Lisa- : small shows?
 Lisa- : local?
 Bruce : I am, not sure I understand what you mean Lisa
 Lisa- : well, we have little local craft shows etc- do we start there of go for a more major show?
 Cindy : by no repeats, you mean no two faces alike or dressed alike?
 Bruce : Small shows and local shows for the most part are not worth your time
 Bruce : YES on two alike
 Lisa- : that was my assumption since I need shows where people will grab for that plasitc and spend $500-700
 Bruce : YOU can do a show locally and it will take a weekend and you might sell two santas in the mall
 Ken : local here is 5k people....
 Bruce : OR you could drive8 hours
 Bruce : and get to a show that had a population that
 Bruce : would support your work and love it.
 Lisa- : So spend the $500 or more in booth rental and do a show with a 10,000 person draw?
 Bruce : IN the first case you sold to dolls but did you make any money?
 Bruce : the second case you made money and can't wait to get home and start working
 Bruce : Absolutely
 Lisa- : how do we find out which shows are the best? Elizabeth did one that promised a huge draw... and... didn't.
 Bruce : IT is at the big show also where you get the press and the publicity
 Bruce : with a great show under your belt you ha
 Elizabeth : Yeah, very disappointing.
 Bruce : ve a story for the news paper
 Elizabeth : I was interviewed for the news, but the football game ran over and they cut it.  Darn it.
 Bruce : Part of the problem
 Ken : so I could write to the local craft editors about doing a article...
 Bruce : Sorry
 Lisa- : On that note, I had the local paper do a story on my work and got lots of calls and etc from that- no sales, but notariety none the less.
 Bruce : Only if you have something to say
 Ken : ok
 Bruce : one of the big stories.
 Lisa- : seems the local paper will do anything you ask-
 Bruce : That is a whole other topic.
 Bruce : But we need to back up here. I wish
 Bruce : we were all in a room and I was talking to you
 Ken : us too.
 Bruce : I am so much more articulate with my mouth
 Lisa- : with lots of coffee
 Bruce : than with my fingers
 Bruce : One of the problems that is involved with shows is this
 Ken : maybe we will all come to visit in VT !!
 Lisa- : You're doing great though! I am on the edge of my seat.
 Bruce : It goes back to why I asked if you did other things than santas
 Bruce : Most of the shows
 Bruce : that are good
 Bruce : are contemporty craft shows
 Bruce : there are also some traditional shows thta are good but I know less about them
 Lisa- : so more cutting edge, less home spun Santa Claus?
 Bruce : But for the most part. YOU are juried by a jury of artist to get into the shows
 Ken : so where do we locate what shows are going on & where ?
 Bruce : Yes you are getting the point before i have even made it.
 Bruce : I have a rule that I say in most workshops
 Bruce : that is cute and sophisticated do not mix\\
 Bruce : ONE cancels out the other.
Bruce : this is also or especially true with your slides
 Lisa- : this is exactly why I don't get more dates! I knew I would figure it out someday! LOL
 Bruce : Many of the doll makers I encounter in my workshops
 Bruce : have a hard time understanding this
 Bruce : They really  need two sets of slides
 Bruce : One that is only cutting edge art dolls
 Bruce : with nothing cute or sentimental
 Bruce : in the slides at all .  not even one.
 Bruce : Then another set for more tradional shows.
 Lisa- : Are you allowed to enter 2 sets? Could you do so under separate business names?
 Lisa- : or would the shows be obviously geared more toward one than the other anyway?
 Bruce : Some shows you can enter over and over
 Bruce : others not.  I would not use another business name
 Bruce : that could get tricky and most likely you will get caught
 Bruce : I would read the rules very carefully and if it doesn't
 Bruce : say that only one application per artist
 Bruce : then chances are you can apply more than once
 Lisa- : What do you think is the #1 strike out for a jury? What will boot you out of the running immediately?
 Bruce : Do you know about sunshine artist magazine?
 Lisa- : yes, I 've heard of it on the web
 Bruce : Trite, Cutsy, or one or more slides that do not come up to the standard
 Bruce : of that show or your slide set
 Bruce : meaning that all the slides must be consistent
 Bruce : if one is a dog it will kick you out every time.
 Elizabeth : What is sunshine artist magazine?
 Bruce : There is also a publication called fairs and festivals in New England
 Lisa- : I have an IL guide to art and craft shows that was free and seems very complete
 Bruce : I would think that NE would be a great market for  all of you
 Bruce : It is very similar to the one I just spoke about
 Lisa- : How big of an effect is the current down sliding market having?
 Bruce : For the middle of the road stuff huge.
 Bruce : I have heard of lots of businesses that are
 Bruce : experiencing 30 to 35 % down turn in business
 Lisa- : but people are still buying high end and low end?
 Bruce : in the past few weeks
 Bruce : High end if it is right is still selling
 Bruce : but there are fewer people who can afford it so it is a shrinking market
 Bruce : everyone is looking for a bargain this  year
 Bruce : and that is not what art is about
 Lisa- : I think for us, part of our "job" of selling is educating people on what goes into making these dolls.
 Bruce : Wow I feel like we are jumping all over here\
 Bruce : Absolutely
 Lisa- : They may still not be able to afford a piece, but knowing 60 hours went into it makes a difference
 Elizabeth : We are a bit.  Could we go back to the Sunshine artist mag?  What is it?
 Bruce : and the more you can sell and educate and get them to
 Bruce : identify with you and your work the better
 Bruce : Sunshine artist is a monthly publication
 Bruce : it is published in winter park Florida
 Lisa- : I am correct that I have seen it on the web as well?
 Elizabeth : thank you
 Bruce : and I am sure you could find it on the web
 Bruce : IT is a listing of shows
 Bruce : that are reviewed by artist
 Lisa- : Elizabeth, if I am thinking of the right thing, I have the site book marked and will post a link later
 Elizabeth : Does it have shows in Florida only?
 Elizabeth : Thanks, Lisa!
 Lisa- : all over
 Bruce : and they are divided up by region so you really get the real story
 Elizabeth : Good
 Ken : thank you, you just answered my previous question...
 Bruce : I have a hard time typing and reading too
 Bruce : so many times I miss your in between questions
 Lisa- : join the club- hey, you had to to get into the chat! LOL
 Cindy : you must be fast to keep up with our minds and fingers
 Lisa- : Let me check my question list for those not here again...
 Bruce : OK that would be good
 Bruce : I do not want to be discouraging but the only
 Bruce : way you will be able to make what you make and be able to sell it
 Bruce : is to put yourself on a pedestal
 Lisa- : ok, again, as I mentioned this morning, a HUGE issue is pricing- what are some rules of thumb on pricing our work
 Elizabeth : What do you mean?
 Ken : and have others do the same !
 Bruce : Literally when you talk about what you create there has to be no doubt in the customers mind that you are the best
 Lisa- : shameless self promotion!!!
 Ken : YES !!
 Bruce : Not to the point of being obnoxious but to say
 Bruce : what gives my work it's edge is the way that I .....
 Bruce : And notice how I have show by his expression
 Lisa- : I can do it, but I always have that nagging voice in my head that makes me want to shut up and be more humble
 Bruce : the felling that .... YOU can see the way.
 Bruce : There is an artist in VT. That I have heard say at an opening
 Bruce : "I am the greatest American Folk artist that ever lived"
 Bruce : It made me want to puke. but he sold the show out
 Bruce : practically the first night
 Bruce : There is an equation there.
 Bruce : Put yourself on a pedestal as an artist and people will come to you and look up.
 Elizabeth : I see
 Lisa- : and, because the better you do the more you're beaten down... so hard to maintain that self assurance...
 Bruce : if you don't they will say to themselves. Where are the true artist here
 Bruce : Look at it this way.   The media and society helps
 Bruce : the people who are already famous
 Bruce : The more famous you are the more the media will help you achieve your fame
 Cindy : good or bad
 Bruce : I remember an interview with Justin Timberlake
 Bruce : Barbara Walters asked him if he really had 400 pairs of shoes
 Bruce : he said yes and she said why
 Lisa- : oh my gosh, a closet N'Sync fan...
 Bruce : he said when you get to the point where you can afford
 Bruce : anything. Everyone gives you everything
 Lisa- : to true...
 Bruce : NOT so closet.  I love to dance
 Bruce : Sorry I got off the point.
 Lisa- : LOL
 Bruce : Main rule here is to talk about your self as if you are famous
 Bruce : never give up on that thought when you are selling
 Elizabeth : Moi?
 Elizabeth : LOL
 Bruce : never apologize for just starting
 Bruce : out.
 Ken : next q...?
 Lisa- : so, we are all the best artist (and dancers) in the room... how do we fairly price our work?
 Bruce : Seize the opportunity and sell sell sell
 Bruce : Pricing is always a can of worms and I really hate to talk about it because it is so misunderstood
 Bruce : But here we go.
 Bruce : First of all
 Lisa- : worms everywhere!
 Bruce : there is no formula for pricing
 Bruce : if you are making  art in a spare bedroom and someone else is woring is a
 Bruce : studio your prices have to reflect those differences
 Bruce : pricing starts with your overhead
 Bruce : until you know your overhead costs you are shooting in the dark when it comes to price\
 Bruce : so first thing you have to do is to find out for a year what portion of your costs are attributed to overhead
 Bruce : best way to do that is to use a computer program like quick books or quicken
 Bruce : every time you write a check you assign it to a category from your chart of accounts
 Lisa- : and include all costs like booth rental? Web hosting? Supplies? everything?
 Bruce : to really get a good idea of what should be on that chart you should consult with an accountant
 Lisa- : ok
 Bruce : Everything
 Lisa- : ok
 Bruce : quicken comes with a chart of accounts that you can modify
 Bruce : lets just say for ease that at the end of a year
 Bruce : your overhead and this is pretty close to what it should be
 Bruce : is 25 percent
 Bruce : that means that 25 percent of each item sold needs to contribute to that overhead or you are loosing money
 Bruce : Also. another pricing issue is
 Bruce : buying materials.  this is called sourcing.
 Bruce : get your sourcing from the best supplier and at the lowest cost
 Bruce : sometimes just changing a supplier can make a huge difference in your bottom line
 Bruce : one time i change the supplier I used for gold earring posts
 Bruce : this represent a $17,000 saving to my business on an annual basis.
 Bruce : Wow.
 Lisa- : ow
 Lisa- : wow
 Bruce : Buy your materials at wholesale cost not retail
 Bruce : and always mark up your materials.
 Lisa- : even if that means jumping into bulk purchases?
 Ken : by how much markup ?
 Bruce : at least 100 percent but I would go higher more like 300 Percent on the material mark up.
 Ken : o....
 Bruce : YOU are paying a material mark up on everything you buy.  You have the mark up your materials especially if you are holding stock of material
 Lisa- : that makes sense
 Bruce : Then you also need to add to your pricing structure a sales feel
 Bruce : make that fee
 Bruce : a rep charges 15 to 20 percent as a sales fee.
 Bruce : if you do not have a sales fee in your pricing formula
 Bruce : then you are giving away your time or working for nothing every time you do a show or trying to sell your work in another venue
 Lisa- : again, that makes sense
 Bruce : So it looks something like this.
 Bruce : take the time it take you to create a doll
 Bruce : lets say 20 hours.
 Bruce : Then multiply that by the hourly rate you charge
 Bruce : What do you think is a fair hourly rate?
 Lisa- : $15 an hour, maybe $20
 Lisa- : ??
 Bruce : OK Then we have $400 for labor
 Bruce : now we take our 25 percent overhead
 Bruce : and the 15 percent sales fee
 Bruce : The materials marked up double or triple
 Lisa- : now we get to see how good your math is... I'm still doing $20 x's 20 hours... lol
 Bruce : and then we should put in there at least 4% profit
 Ken : ok, we are around 800.00
 Bruce : I meant that to be 5 % but hit the wrong button
 Bruce : YES, That is right.  NOW here come the real big stuff.
 Bruce : How do we create a doll that the customer sees is worth 800 dollars.
 Bruce : this is where the marketing comes in .
 Lisa- : good question!
 Bruce : Use nothing but the finest and most unusual material.
 Bruce : the best brocade etc.
 Ken : by making it irresistible to the customer, they must have it,,, it is one from the Greate "Bruce" !!
 Bruce : Sew pearl buttons on the jacket. Most people have not idea what the price of a pearl is but they here pearls and they hear a cash register
 Bruce : a strand of decent freshwater pearls can be acquired of six or 8 dollar
 Bruce : but the perceived values is huge.  Gold leaf costs almost nothing
 Ken : so, my Black Seal skin full length coat I am going to use on Santa should be a hefty cost santa !!
 Lisa- : yes Ken, but not as much as it cost the seal... 
 Ken : ok
 Bruce : but it adds high perceived values to an item of art./
 Lisa- : So that all makes huge sense- BUT
 Bruce : Always use value added words when talking about your work
 Bruce : I am waiting for the but.
 Lisa- : how long do we have the $1000 Santa out there and not selling before lowering the price? Or is it more about raising our marketing skills?
 Lisa- : now lowering prices
 Lisa- : That should have read NOT lowering prices
 Bruce : Raising the marking skills is good but using that santa to get you somewhere.  Get to the right shows and it will sell or send it to the wife of the govener of your state.  Then get a story.  Send on to Mrs. Bush.
 Elizabeth : What do you consider the value added words, Bruce?
 Ken : but that $1,000.00 santa can be one of the show expenses you use to advertise your quality ...
 Bruce : Gold is most likely the best.  Antique buttons. Antique lace.
 Elizabeth : I see
 Bruce : any gem stone or jewelry word
 Bruce : amethyst
 Lisa- : I love that both "imported" and "American made" can both be used to add value!
 Bruce : This is my turquoise Santa,  would have been perfect for this year but too late next year. turquoise with a Native American touch
 Bruce : IT depends on where it imported fr0om
 Bruce : France and Italy are great imported word.
 Bruce : china and Afghanistan are not.
 Lisa- : funny though how you rarely see where it is imported from! "imported fabrics" are big in Santa making...
 Ken : true...
 Elizabeth : lol
 Bruce : I would say where from.  Turkish linen
 Bruce : Egyptian Cotton
 Bruce : Italian silk
 Lisa- : How much should we also use comparable pricing? This Santa is $500 , mine is better... etc
 Bruce : I think what you are getting at could be handled better
 Bruce : Many times when customers say something like
 Bruce : why is it so expensive
 Bruce : What they are really saying is tell me why I should buy it.
 Bruce : I think I would use something like this santa was created with great skill.  YOU can see the difference.
 Lisa- : and we should then answer with all the value words...
 Lisa- : so build them up as well-
 Bruce : Most of good selling happens with words.
 Lisa- : hence why we need your tape and need to listen to it on the way to the show!
 Lisa- : this self promotion stuff is not natural to a lot of us.
 Bruce : that is always good. I am amazed how many people tell me that they listen to it before every show.
 Lisa- : I have heard a few people say that- and that it helps them to be comfortable with "pitching" so to speak
 Bruce : That is true.  Also do not rule out the possibility if you are in a show that is good
 Bruce : take someone with you to work the booth with you
 Bruce : IF they are theatrical and good at selling they can say anything about your work.
 Lisa- : Bruce, where is you next seminar?
 Bruce : just remember that when you are not busy one of you needs to go away. two people in a booth with no customers is way too intimidating
 Lisa- : specifically, when is your next Midwest seminar?
 Bruce : My next seminar in in Maine in Jan.
 Lisa- : that sounds cold!
 Ken : ooooooooooo  ccccold there tooooo...
 Bruce : I have been asked that question about four time this week
 Bruce : week
 Bruce : I have on schedule for march of 2004 in MO.
 Lisa- : Since you are now officially a member of our group- please feel free to direct post up coming seminar info.
 Bruce : I am in KY this JULY
 Lisa- : 2004?!?!
 Lisa- : I can make it to KY!
 Bruce : but lets get something going in your area before that
 Lisa- : that would be great!!
 Lisa- : I know a group of folks meeting in the MI area in March- feel like learning to sculpt?!
 Bruce : My workshops have been just about selling out where ever I go
 Bruce : I would love to work in your area. IF you know of an organization who would sponsor it send them to my web site. lets. make it happen
 Lisa- : If you had to pick one Midwest show that you would recommend for me specifically, what would it be?
 Bruce : I think that most likely the Ann Arbor show in MI would be great.
 Bruce : it has been around for along time and has a huge draw
 Lisa- : Is it a good idea or a bad one to work with a group of doll artists sharing space?
 Elizabeth : Which one?  There are a lot of big Ann Arbor shows.
 Bruce : There are also several spin off shows that happen at the same time.
 Elizabeth : What time of year is the Ann Arbor show you're talking about?
 Lisa- : This is where the Sunshine mag. could be helpful!
 Elizabeth : Yes, it would.
 Bruce : The street fair or the state street show are the best I think
 Bruce : It is in July
 Bruce : I think many doll makers in one booth is often confusing
 Elizabeth : thanks
 Lisa- : here is another question from some one who couldn't be here...
 Bruce : I think one maybe two artist per booth is best.
 Bruce : OK fire away.
 Lisa- : if there is a possibility of having 2 "brackets" of pricing- high and low priced pieces, should you put out both? Or stick to one "type" of product> In other words...
 Lisa- : if you could make pieces for $100 and some for $800 do you put them in the same booth?
 Bruce : I think this depends on the show.
 Lisa- : a loaded question huh?
 Bruce : IF you got into the Philadelphia show for example you would only want to take the upper end
 Ken : so know your audience..
 Bruce : but if you were doing a show that was perhaps more middle class both would be fine.
 Lisa- : do you see many doll artists at the shows you do?
 Lisa- : and how do they seem to do?
 Bruce : sometimes the ooks help to sell the lower end pieces but it never goes the other way
 Lisa- : got cha!
 Bruce : I do not see lots of doll artist but I do run into them from time to time.
 Lisa- : but we're the best you've seen right?
 Lisa- : LOL
 Bruce : IF their work is dream like or really special they do well
 Lisa- : good to know!
 Bruce : IF the look and the mood the doll creates is right.
 Bruce : price is no object.
 Bruce : but the dolls really have to tell a story
 Bruce : it has to be a story that the customer
 Ken : so my "Mr. Regan" sant may do well....
 Bruce : can relate to if it is going to be an easy sale
8Cindy is away.
 Bruce : Yes.  god knows people seem to love him
 Lisa- : you make to much sense Bruce!
 Lisa- : Reganomics, you can call him!
 Ken : funny...
 Bruce : The story is the key and the more the story is on trend
 Bruce : the easier the sale
 Bruce : what is really on trend now. IS Sanctuary.
 Bruce : Tranquility.    Peace.
 Lisa- : I have certainly seen that being true in the pieces I have sold.
 Bruce : We all long for a time and place of tranquility
 Ken : well all have to go for dinner, Bruce it has been a pleasure, and hope you return again, or just join us when you have "Nothing to do" except keep warm in VT.... thanks again...Ken Dreger
 Bruce : a simpler time.  A time before terrorism
 Lisa- : I have sold only a handful in the short time I have been doing this, and 3 of them were beach themed.
 Bruce : A gardening doll.  would be just the thing
 Lisa- : one was garden themed- Bruce you read my mind!
 Bruce : Peace, stillness.
 Bruce : any doll that reminds us of this states we long for
 Lisa- : Escapeism seems big as well- fairies, trolls
 Bruce : will be easy to sell.
 Bruce : It is the fantasy side of what we are talking about
 Lisa- : do all juries do slides as opposed to photos?
8Ken is away.
 Elizabeth : Well, I have to call it a night.  Time for going to bed.  Great having you here, Bruce.  Hope you can join us again some time.  Good night, everyone
 Bruce : Most show that are worth doing jury with slides.
 Lisa- : so say good by to my digital camera?
 Bruce : 'Bye ELIZ
 Bruce : Sleep tight
 Lisa- : By Elizabeth! Gald you could get in!
 Elizabeth : 'night
 Elizabeth : Me, too!
 Elizabeth : Talk to you later, Lisa
8Elizabeth has left the conversation.
 Lisa- : So, what kind of sponsorship do your seminars usually have?
 Bruce : Well I guess that just leave the three of us who started here
 Lisa- : I think Ken is off getting more coffee, so just you and me!
 Bruce : I usually get hired by craft organizations
 Bruce : but sometimes an individual will want to do a workshop
 Lisa- : I will check around here and see what I can get going- would love to have you!!
 Bruce : I work closely with these people and advise them how to promote it so it gets good attendance
 Bruce : All you really need is a mailing list.
 Lisa- : I am still getting to know the local artist community- I have only just gone pro! LOL
 Lisa- : I would think your web site and other connections would do most of the work
 Bruce : Since I have been writing for The Crafts Report the workshops usually go really well as far as attendance goes
 Bruce : I just did on in AZ that they sold out.
 Bruce : a
 Bruce : after all the bills were paid they made 2000 on the workshops for their scholarship fund
 Lisa- : I will spend the morning editing the transcript for ease of reading and posting it- I am sure everyone will read it and sorry more folks didn't show- I think it is a bit close to the holiday season- everyone is nuts already
 Bruce : Not a problem for me.  I am not sure I could have kept up if there were more people here.
 Bruce : It was a pleasure for me.  Thanks for asking me to do it.
 Lisa- : We have a local art place (how technical is that description!) they sponsor lots of seminars, classes, showings- may be a good group for me to interest in having you
 Bruce : Let me know how I can help you get them interested.
 Lisa- : I really enjoyed it and learned a ton- still have lots of questions as all good discussion should raise as many as are answered (I think anyway!)  Do you mind if I e-mail you a couple more questions and post the answers for the group? those we missed
 Bruce : Not a problem.  I may take a few days to get the answers back to you.
 Lisa- : I will contact them after the holiday and see- I will certainly be in touch- need to order the tapes anyway. Do you have any literature on the seminars I could get to them?
 Bruce : I look forward to hearing from you. thanks,  BB
 Lisa- : take all the time you need- I will post the answers whenever
 Lisa- : Have a great Holiday season and thanks again ever so much!